I was reading what Sparky wrote in his post (and Don's answer):
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Another dismal trip to the big box music store

"Sam Ash (Edison NJ) seems to have been taken over by Roland in the keyboard dept. And almost totally void of arrangers. No BK5 or BK9. Only 3 Yamaha arrangers (400 series and under), 1 korg pa50SD. Did have yammie, korg workstations, and a few pieces of starter casio crap, and pianos (electric). Now this was their flagship store and always had the most of everything. They had (2) PA3x's when they first came out, always had Yamaha psr's in current 900 series, used to have BK5. Now its rolands ws/ep's. a couple yam motifs and a korg krome. Visit shorter than the drive to get their...Now new GC in Raritan has even less but they have recording/lesson studios that reduce floor space in that building.."
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So let me throw that out there. Why do YOU think that is.....that "in stock" TOTL keyboards seem to have gone the way of the dinosaurs? What is YOUR opinion?

Mark

In many cases, having an expensive TOTL arranger in stock, that no one in the store can properly demonstrate (or wants to learn) is tying up money that can be spent on more easily sale-able products.

In my many years of experience, the only time store staff and their customers had any idea of the power and usefulness of a TOTL arranger (in fact, MOTL as well) was when we did company (in my case, Yamaha) sponsored and advertised clinics/demos in the store.

We tried to make store owners/staff see that they would have to sell quite a few guitars to make the same profit realized on one TOTL arranger.

Now that I've retired, there are no specifically trained arranger clinicians/demonstrators in my part of Canada, so it will be interesting to see if the great sales numbers we were getting on Tyros models and top end PSR will continue.

Ian

INTERNET SALES!!!

WE created this situation, not the stores.

chas

I live in a small town in Indiana, and had never seen an arranger keyboard! I went to Indianapolis, expecting to have a choice, but they did not even know what an arranger was! So I went on the internet, my only alternative and bought my keyboard. Thanks to Frank and George who both are a help to us all!

Chas,
you are right on target with your post. We all shop for the least expensive option and that has never been the brick and mortar stores. They can't compete with the likes of Frank and George. On the other hand, my local GC store has been trying to sell a Tyros 4 for $5200.00. It has been there over 2 years. So, they don't get it either.

Deane

I don't believe it has anything to do with Internet sales. The problem is twofold. First and foremost, high ticket items sit around too long in most Music stores, thus tying up funds that can be used for lower ticket items that quickly move through the stores and produce far more revenue in the long run.

Secondly, manufacturers do not provide product training for the store's sales staff. I believe the reason they do not provide this is that the sales staff tends to be younger people that really don't care to learn about the product because the job is usually a summer job or one that they consider something to provide income while they look for a higher paying job in another field.

When I had a fishing tackle store and boat dealership, OMC provided service training for all technicians employed by me. Each person I sent to their NJ training facility cost me an average of $4000 for the two-week course. You have to sell several outboard motors to make back that $4,000 outlay.

In a music store, you really don't need someone that is a skilled technician in order to sell guitars, amps, mics, drum sets, bongos, etc... But, it does require someone with a fair degree of technical ability and skill to sell an arranger keyboard and demonstrate it's myriad of features. There's not a lot of Michael Vonken's out there and most music stores, Sam Ash, GC, etc..., would not want to pay his salary to just sell arranger keyboards or synths.

The only folks I can place in this category is the Scott Langholffs of the world. Scott sold some big ticket Lowrey Organs and knew every nook and crany of the instrument. He not only knew how to play the instrument very well, but he was also quite knowledgeable about the operating system. And, while their sales staff did not make high base salaries, their commissions were fairly high. I don't know of anyone working in a regular, big box, music store that works on salary plus commission.

The Internet allows us to see the product, or at least photos of the product, videos and hear some top notch demonstrators put the product through it's paces. From this point on, however, it's a crap shoot. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Cheers,

Gary

Not entirely, chas ... there have been several occasions recently where I was looking for a certain product ... did an online search and find out that So & So sells it ... go to So & So, ask for the product and get told "Oh no, we don't carry it, it's only sold on-line" ...
The stores have contributed because it is cheaper for them to stock it in one place and send it out when purchased than to stock some in several different stores ...
In fact, with one recent item which I could only purchase from So & So's 'on-line' store, they delivered it to my local store and I did not have to pay a shipping charge ...

I tend to agree with Chas. The reasons my local dealer no longer stocks arrangers are, first, he has to charge sales tax. Second, people were coming in, a salesman spent 30 minutes to an hour showing them an arranger, and then they would go home and order it on line to save 50 bucks. Third, that salesman can spend the same amount of time and sell an item where the profit margin is much greater, like a Clavinova or grand piano, even high end guitars.

Stores make more money on lessons vs selling KB's

They make it on guitar lessons here. Every guitar teacher has a waiting list.
There are maybe five or six arranger players that I know of within 150 miles. I'm sure there are some old people that play them at home, but not many.

Same here, Don. Guitar teachers are booked solid 12 hours a day at the local music store and this store has 20 teaching rooms and the guy is planning to expand to 30 rooms.

There are a half dozen arranger keyboard players within 100 miles of me - that's it! And, I like it that way.

Gary

Mike Mixon at Keyboardamerica (yes-one word)in Delaware has psr 750/950/T5 61 and 76 key there on display. He's a big yammie dealer and full size and e-piano salesman. Sold organs back in the day in NJ. Knows his products inside out, spends the time with you, even has his own youtube channel for instructional demos. Brick and mortar store, and in Delaware- no sales tax period-whether you walk in and buy it there or order online, resident or not. But he is the exception to the rule....as are guys like Frank and George in their respective states.

And the brand new GC by me is advertising their GC studios like crazy. Kids streaming in and out of there for lessons - accompanied by mom or dads credit card of course.. And in today's economy more than ever, comparison shoppers are a given, and you have to be competitive or die a slow death. Kids are hired in the big box stores with a prerequisite of playing in a garage band period. And it is easier for the store to sell 20 $250 guitars than 1 $5k keyboard nobody knows anything about..

there is more then enough on you tube & the internet for info on any piece of gear to make a decision to buy, make comparisons,
talk to owners, reviews, etc, it's a new world out here embrace it I say.

I live in Sherbrooke, Quebec (150 000 of population). We have 4 average size music instrument stores. A lot of guitars, bass, drums,etc but few arrangers. One has 3 or 4 PSR, the 750 being the most expensive. Another has sometime a PA3X and some used ones mainly Casio. The two others don't have any.

But.... there is another store that have been selling pianos for the last 50 years and that carries from PSR-e4xx to Tyros all the time and selling a lot. So the question is perhaps where the arrangers are and the size of the wallet of the usual client.

I think we have to acknowledge the fact that just about any pop or rock band is going to have guitars bass and drums and if its a keyboard it is a synth NOT an arranger ... that is one of the reasons why we are going to see more guitars bass and drums than we will ever see arranger keyboards in most of these stores ...

I have to agree with some of the earlier posts. My local GC, the largest of 6 GC stores in my area, had a T4 last fall that I wanted to learn more about. I hadn't touched an arranger keyboard before and was hoping that someone could show me the capabilities and features of that keyboard. I talked to their most experienced keyboard player on staff and after 30 seconds it was clear he didn't have a clue how to operate the thing, let along demo it for me. But in a way I can't complain about the retailers -- these gizmos are so complex and differ in operation from one brand to the next that I can see how difficult it would be to train the salespeople.

Arranger keyboards are really not that complex, at least I've never found them to be that way. However, at first glance they can be somewhat daunting, with dozens of buttons and lights and a multi-page display. The user manuals are usually of very little help in making it comfortable to sit down and play. Fortunately, there are loads of great web sites, such as this one, PSR Tutorial, and Jorgen Sorenson's Unofficial Yamaha Keyboard Resource Site, which provides users and potential buyers with a wealth of easy to read information.

Gary